JOAN: How is the issue of feminism that we've been discussing in this conference regarded in your work? Are you explicitly feminist in your curriculum, report, and recommendations?

ASSENY: First of all let me give you a history of how I came to learn about feminism. When I got involved in women's issues way back in 1979, I just became conscious that we needed change in the unequal relationship between men and women in economic, social, cultural and even political aspects. It was my orientation. I didn't baptize it with a specific name but we joined with other women's groups in saying that we needed change - needed to have an equal relationship, needed to uplift the status of women. It was 1978-79; women's lib was the vocabulary more than feminism. Still with women's lib, we are not in direct opposition because by definition liberation is freeing a person of what is not good for him or her. But because we thought the term liberation was very threatening to the men, we thought we should play it safe and make it part of change in general. Raise the status of women, that's what we meant, bring development. Then when I went to Britain in 1984 I attended a course on women, men and development ~at the University of Sussex. This way I sat down to find the definition of this word' "feminism" of which I had read so much. In 1980 feminism was at least familiar to us. So I got the definition. Before that I really thought that the basis of feminism was women's groups who were literally against men and who saw men as their direct enemy. This was the definition I had. But then I got to know that feminism isn't that limited. It was mainly a title for people who want to obtain equality in society and fight all forms of exploitation and oppression of women. So I said, aha! It fits the intention for which we organized. But back home I don't think the term is widely used by women because it would be taken in an African context. It is not a term which people would be happy about, people who are not aware of the women's perspective. At the university I have to confess we have not taken to calling ourselves feminists although we relate to feminist groups in the world. We don't announce feminism publicly as a struggle because it is a female struggle.

JOAN: Is there anything else you would like to add to what Asseny said.

PATRICIA: We really don't have a word for feminism in Swahili. We have a Swahili word which means liberation. We don't have a term for a divisive kind of struggle. Together we are trying to sensitize men to women's issues and women's problems so we can work together.

JOAN: You don't talk about feminism - you talk about the issues, the questions and the problems?

ASSENY: The questions, the aspects. They sound more meaningful to village women. As I was saying at the conference, at one time we had people at the university who were talking Marxism from the political point of view. Then Nyerere our president, told them, I'm aware of your Marxism-Leninist analysis but how far can you translate your Marxism to the village people or to your mother in the village. Relating the same problem to the feminist terminology - much as I may understand what it means and want to take it within my context - I don't think I can translate it to rural women who have more problems in my country.

JOAN: And they respond?

ASSENY: Yes, as time passes they really know the answers. They know that in production the men take the share and in some places they even protested and went into men's agricultural activities to get an income which they could call theirs. They know that they are overburdened. In the village, women will tell you, we are doing nearly everything. The men are resting. But the problem is a way out. They can articulate their problems but need to be helped to see that they have to playa very big role in solving the problems.