Greta: A few years at Concordia and Vanier College, in a more objective academic style, and since I arrived at the New School. The philosophy of education is much different here though. We start with topics of interest to the students and build a course around that, so the courses are constantly changing.

Susan: Can you give me an example of how this works?

Greta: A group of students decided they wanted to study some historical material on women, so I gave them some de Beauvoir to read. They were to write about what interested them in the chapter being discussed each week. At one point in the book, de Beauvoir makes just passing mention of virginity, and that week, seven out of ten students wrote about virginity. So we stopped right there and began extensive discussions about virginity as a male construct which served male interests. This evolved into a course on women's bodies and body images which has had a number of spin-offs in the school and in my own writing.

One year, a young man wanted to be involved in the course. The women did not feel they would be as free to discuss the issues with him present, so a separate part of the course was set up for young men, with both groups getting together for a time at the end. The young men discovered that the materials available on men's sexuality and roles was dismal. As a result of this experience, I was encouraged to edit a book of material on women and men.

Susan: What do you feel are the most essential ingredients for young women's education?

Greta: It is critical to help them separate out what is a given and what is not, in their identity as women, and to develop a collective consciousness which will lead to collective action. They need to understand the relativity of gender identity. As Margaret Meade observed years ago, in every society, women and men do different kinds of work and, although the actual work they are responsible for varies from one society to another, the constant is that, whatever work women do, it is valued less than men's work.

It is important that they learn to trust their own instincts and to validate one another's experience of the world as women, compared to how women are described by society. And in this regard, they need to explore who has the power to define their reality. We also discuss race and culture in this context.

The objectives of this kind of education are to help them identify where they stand as individuals on a variety of issues; to examine the choices they have in their own lives; to assist them to develop a public stand in order to be consistent with their own values. The objective for young men is to sensitize them to women, and to turn them into feminists as well.

Susan: Do you feel that the women's movement has been successful in integrating young women and their concerns?

Greta: The women's movement is not really making a place for young women. Older feminists don't have patience with young women because they don't want to have to go over the issues which they have already resolved, but which younger women still need to explore for themselves.

I taught a course on Contemporary Women's Issues last year, and it happened to be a year when a lot of women's conferences were being held in Montreal. I arranged for many of my students to attend the conferences at reduced fees, in exchange for helping out. They were very often treated in inferior fashion and were frustrated by that part of the experience.

Susan: What should women's organizations do to include young women and to advance their interests?

Greta: In part, it is difficult to attract young women because they don't want to be there with their mothers, but a number of things could be done. Special conferences need to be organized for them, as they were during International Youth Year. At women's conferences, workshops and activities could be offered for them, but their fees would have to be subsidized.